find out what it means to me

[wasabi_poptart]

I find certain aspects of Female Chauvinist Pigs deeply troubling.

The way bois are depicted is just awful. My own experience with bois is limited to having my cigarettes lit by their Zippos during Pride, but Levy makes them sound sexist beyond anything that does have a biological penis.

Also, is high school culture really as bad as she makes it out to be, with video clips of girls fellating Swiffer handles being posted onto Friendster and whatnot? I can't even imagine.

I don't know how true all this is, not moving in such circles, but the picture this book paints is dark and bleak.

I haven't finished it yet, and I don't know if it's going to come to this conclusion, but it seems to me that the fundamental principle that is lacking here is R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

Comments

[unprotoize.livejournal.com]

Yeah I don't read books like that anymore, they're too sensationalistic; too designed to get your blood pressure up, too .. i donno .. pandering. Or something. Anyway .. your icon makes you look like Holly ! :) So glad to have found yer lj.

[daybook.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I avoid these books as well. They're too alarmist. And there's so many lately saying how mainstream culture is becoming too porny, ohmygod we're all SO FAT, or whatever else they want to freak out about.

[ex-midwinte.livejournal.com]

There are some issues with sexism among FTMs, definitely. In embracing/expressing maleness they sometimes go overboard, and The Machine totally encourages this, since not only do we live in a sexist society, but doctors treating transgendered folks recommend or even require that they do totally bullshit gendered stuff, like in the cases of MTFs, shave their legs and wear make-up. (I do the former spottily and the latter never and I am still a woman.)

But others in the feminist movement and in the trans world are trying to combat all this; trans conventions and whatnot usually have at least one session devoted to being aware of sexism and understanding where the line is. And the leader of the DC Dyke March, a very feminism-oriented event, is FTM, so at least locally, there is crossover between feminism and being trans.

It makes me really sad when FTMs behave in sexist ways. There's also this whole "turning the patriarchy on its ear and reclaiming power by being a dude who is not really a dude but acting in a stereotypically dude-like way," which is the rationale I hear for sexist or misogynist performances in drag shows, but I reject this rationale, because hello, it's not a victimless crime. I'm glad you embraced your power and all, but women are still hurt by your behavior.

[ex-midwinte.livejournal.com]

Because you asked for a term paper.

[wasabi-poptart.livejournal.com]

no, I was hoping you'd respond! I'm very interested to hear what you as an uber-gay feminist have to say about this phenomena.

I first became aware of the friction between the transgendered/lesbian community at the 2003 SGC, when they were circulating a petition calling for a musician boycott (boicott? :) of the Michigan's Wommyn Festival because it was barring MTFs from attending. It's just so ... wrong. We're all in this together.

[ex-midwinte.livejournal.com]

It is BEYOND WRONG. You would not believe the bigoted and false NONSENSE that many associated with the MWMFestival spout. I would never go to that festival and I am really disgusted that people do. Like, again, I'm glad you found a safe space, but at what cost?

Don't get me started on that. It makes me so hopping mad. Transwomen are women.

[wasabi-poptart.livejournal.com]

It's like saying converts to Judaism aren't really Jews, or naturalized citizens aren't really Americans. It's hegemonic bullshit.

[wasabi-poptart.livejournal.com]

"turning the patriarchy on its ear and reclaiming power by being a dude who is not really a dude but acting in a stereotypically dude-like way"

how, exactly, are you turning the patriarchy on its ear by becoming part of it?

how can you say you're reclaiming power when it's coming at somebody else's expense?

no, no, no. as far as I'm concerned, women who treating other women like shit because they are women are social cannibals.

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

This reminds me of the drag king show Ms. Marvelous and I went to. I kept wondering, why do all these women want to act like the very people who are most opposed to who they are? That is, why is that crotch grabbing, foul mouthed, swaggering chick acting like the assholes who hang out on the corner in Hampden? I don't care WHO you are, I don't appreciate being sized up like a piece of meat, and I don't like watching you lip synch to misogynist rap songs.

Just a note - I do think that there is also an intersection of class in this area. It reminds me of "Stone Butch Blues", the fact that butch lesbians were (and I would believe still are) ending up in lower social classes. In the book, this seems to align itself with acting out of stereotypical gendered roles, and when someone moved out of those roles it caused problems within that (lesbian) community. Does this make sense?

[wasabi-poptart.livejournal.com]

yep. class, race, gender. that's what it all boils down to.

[sarahmarvelous.livejournal.com]

I take any description of adolescent behavior by adults with a grain of salt- you just can't trust that they understand the culture. Just think about the things your peers did as a teen to shock their parents and push the envelope. I'm not saying that stuff doesn't go on, I think there's a lot of raunchy sex in high school today. But I know how much sensationalism was going on around Grunge when I was in high school, and how little of it parents really needed to worry about.

But maybe I'm wrong and there's a whole generation of porn stars in training out there, spreading STDs and shooting heroine and shooting up their high school.

[emily-hahn.livejournal.com]

But maybe I'm wrong and there's a whole generation of porn stars in training out there, spreading STDs and shooting heroine and shooting up their high school.

I kind of doubt that - aren't there also sensationalistic news stories also about how the Millenials (as I always hear them called working in a predominantly undergrad institution) are also embracing evangelical Christianity/fundamentalism with a fervor not found in previous generations? Without any actual real statistical data, I'd be inclined to dismiss most of what's been said as anecdotal. That plus I know Mishymisu just read this book and dismissed it as Women's Studies lite - not to mention the highest praise I've read was Wendy "A Return To Modesty" Shallit's review in the Wall Street Journal.

[wasabi-poptart.livejournal.com]

hee. Wendy Shallit. Now that's comedy!

[snidegrrl.livejournal.com]

Every problem you have with the book makes me think I will agree with it all the more! Er, what I mean is, I am also troubled by all this shit but maybe in a different way.

[monstarrsoprano.livejournal.com]

I think the reason why I wasn't/am too gung ho to read it is based on an article that woman (hah how Clinton of me) wrote about bois for New York magazine. I remember highlighting the whole (overly) sexualized aspects above the positive genderfucking that comes out of it.

http://www.nerve.com/screeningroom/books/femalechauvinistpigs/, that article helps address some pretty good things. Although I haven't done more than thumb through the book so I should shut up.
& show my tits.